Ep. 38 - The Questions of Jesus: Where Are Your Accusers?

In John 8:1-11, we encounter one of the most powerful pictures of the heart of God in all of Scripture. A woman caught in adultery is dragged into the public square, not because the religious leaders are seeking justice, but because they are trying to trap Jesus. In the process, they reduce a person made in God's image to a prop in their argument.

Yet Jesus responds in a way that reveals both truth and grace. He doesn't ignore sin, excuse wrongdoing, or pretend there are no consequences. Instead, He confronts the hypocrisy of those eager to condemn while overlooking their own need for mercy. With a few simple words, Jesus exposes the hearts of everyone in the crowd and reminds us that none of us stand before God on the basis of our own righteousness.

In this episode, we explore what this story teaches us about judgment, shame, repentance, and the incredible grace of Jesus. Most importantly, we see Jesus as the One who does not come to condemn, but to bring salvation, healing, and transformation.

Whether you've struggled with shame, wrestled with judgment, or simply want to better understand the heart of God, this conversation offers a powerful reminder that grace never ignores truth, but it always leads with love.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Yeah. Uh this week you mentioned it. What is going on around this building? Let me tell you on around community lecture. I kind of feel like we're being transformed into a rainforest around here.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

I'm gonna be on a transformed or shoved into whatever's it's coming, man. Transformed.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

That's our word.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Vacation Bible school is coming.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Yeah, it is. Who's who's coming? Who's ready? Everybody excited? Yeah, we're excited. So what what have you brought here?

SPEAKER_00 0:30

So we have, for those who don't know, we've got 750 children registered. There's actually more. But the capacity is 750. So we have 750 children registered. Kristen's doing everything she can to get, there's like 150, 125 preschool. The rest are elementary school. They're gonna come and spend five days learning about Jesus um in a in a rainforest that we have created. Yes. 290 something adults, probably more. We still need we still need more adults. So by Thursday, maybe if you hear this and come on, you have a day that you can work in a parking lot where you like to be told that you're number one.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yes. Jump in. People are even more friendly around VBS.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

But Clint and I and my daughter Micah and Kristen, we handle all of the when they first get there, we do the stage, some skits, we go over the point of the day, the scripture of the day, and there's a lot of big games that we play, a lot of screaming. A lot. So when you're on the stage and you have 750 very high-pitched, shrill voices screaming at you, it it does something to your sanity, number one, but it does something to your ears. Yeah. And so here we are 20 years in, and Clint decided we would be ear responsible. And he bought these cool things for us to put in our ears that take the decibels out.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

I've not tried them.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

I was gonna say, have you have you tested them? Do you want do you want me to scream at you?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

I do you would not be the first today. Does that mean something? Um, but you stick them in there and it just I don't know if it's because of the silicone or whatever, but it just takes the pain out.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Takes a little bit of the edge off.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

So I'm already deaf, but we'll put these in there and now I won't be able to hear myself, so I will be screaming.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

You guys, because I've been in that room multiple times in multiple places, you guys have it the worst because literally every voice is projected right at you. So you can kind of get away. If you're in the back of the room, it's loud. But if you're on the stage, it's painful, it is the worst.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yeah, and it's in the on all okay, that's gotta come out of my ear. That's not gonna work. Um, not gonna work in here because that's not it.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

It's not for me. Well, I'm glad you have that. I'm glad you're taking your ear health responsibly. I am. Glad you're being ear ear responsible. Responsible. Yeah. That's good. That's good. I wish I would have done a little more in my rock and roll young days where we were all gathered and my drummers. But you have that long hair that kind of we all have like half stack amps and a full drum set, a full PA. We're in a 12 by 12 bedroom, just as loud as you could possibly imagine. Yeah, that was yeah, exactly. Paying for that one. Good days. Paying for that one.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Yeah, so so pray for vacation Bible school. It's gonna be amazing.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yep. If you um want to jump in parking lot, yeah, there's some places out here to uh to do don't just show up. Don't show up, yeah. You'll get a day system.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Yeah, there's security and all that. But but you're on the front side, you'll get this podcast on Thursday morning. If you get it before Sunday and you want to jump in, let us know. Get to the front desk, call the church, and uh we'll figure out a place for you to jump in. Don't don't listen to him. Don't call us. I'm making stuff up.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Get on to church center app, go to events, go online, it's all there. Is their phone still working? We have a phone, but don't do that. Okay. Sorry. Um, okay. So, questions of Jesus. Yes. I feel like you've been avoiding me, man. Like the last couple weeks, you're just kind of popping in and out.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Like people struggle, people struggle with that. I I um this is a series that was perfect, it was designed for many reasons. It's we're going into the summer, so it's it doesn't have as a heavy of a feel, although some of the messages do. It's easier to have other communicators jump in. We we have great communicators at this church, yep, and they need time to be able to develop to get on stage. And I need a Sunday off every now and then. So coming back from sabbatical, the the point was shoot for 40 times this year that I would be on stage 40 times. That means one Sunday off a month. That doesn't always end up being in a month. Sometimes I'll preach six and then take two, or preach eight and take two, or but uh loved being able to hear Clint. Kat did a wonderful job this last week. Uh I was there on on the front row for for all the services, loved hearing the messages. Um, I am a box of anxious energy when someone else is preaching, and they both did great.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yep. I know you're a rhythm guy, though. This is part of your rhythm, your weekly rhythm. So when you bounce out of it, it's a little unsettling for you.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

It is. Yeah. But uh and and also life, because of the we've had weddings and we've m multiple weddings for other families, also for our family, for our son, but then graduation for a cousin down in Orlando. We've traveled a lot. I am so glad. Uh I never thought there'd be a day where I was like, I'm so excited for vacation Bible school. Like for this reason. I'm always excited about vacation Bible school, but uh to be back in a rhythm, that's our that's our flavor of chaos. Yeah. Being right in the in the rhythm of what God is doing. And I love it. We're in town, we're working, things are happening. Yeah. Man, the team is our team is at its best when we are when we're rocket. If we're left to our own devices, we tend to set things on fire. So that's not that's not not literally.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yeah, but you just you got time to think too much sometimes. That's right. That's right. That's fair. Um, yeah. So if you're coming into the building Sunday, you're gonna see the transformation. Don't be alarmed. Um, that's normal. That's part of what we do here. That immersive um intentionality to to really create the atmosphere. It's beautiful, it's awesome. Your kids are gonna have a blast. This year's a rainforest theme. Rainforest animals are gonna teach us Bible truths each day. Love it, love it.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Um monkeys, got some birds, got some animals I've never heard of before.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

It's gonna be fantastic. Yep. Some kind of cat. Big cat.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

You know, at the end of the week, at some point, I'll I'll be slimed.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

You'll definitely be slimed. Yep, yep. Well, let's get into it this week. So, our question is gonna come from John 8. So, this is the first week we're back in John. We've been in John um periodically. We've been in Matthew a lot for this, and then we're in Luke last week, and now we're jumping over to John. Um, and this is John chapter 8, 8 through uh 1 through 11. This is famously known as the woman caught in adultery. It is.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

So what's so interesting about it is has nothing to do with adultery.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Not really. It doesn't seem to, um, which we'll get into. Yeah, um that's later. We'll couple like that. A couple of clues that clue you in on. I don't think it's really about what what what they're saying it's about. Um, but anything we need to know, I guess the the most obvious thing a lot of the Bibles say that this scripture, the earliest manuscripts, is not even in scripture. Why would that be?

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Glad you asked, Jeff. So this is probably something I'm not gonna get a chance to unpack a lot on Sunday because I don't know that it's super beneficial. Um in a scholarly world and all the studies that were done, John chapter eight, or let's just say this story, was not in any of the earliest manuscripts that we have found that the that the world has found of John's writings. Wasn't there, shows up much, much later. Um, and it shows up in different places. It shows up here, it shows up earlier in John, it even shows up in a copy of Luke. So of the thousands of manuscripts that they have that are early, early, early, the closest to the time of the of writing, this is not anywhere in scripture, but it does show up. It does have the veracity that the early church or those early years believed in it. It doesn't, it's not counter to what Jesus taught. So when scholars started to collate and put scripture together, they believed that it was a a true story of Jesus, whether it was written by John or not by John, they believed that it belonged in the canon, and so they placed it in the canon, and this is where it landed. But if you're just reading through, you're gonna, you're gonna, you'll read it and you'll be like, man, what that doesn't fit there. It doesn't, it doesn't feel exactly right. So you can go and you can do the research as to as to why why it's there. Uh probably this is just dangerous to say because when when you have these kind of conversations, if you're a person that doesn't understand a lot about the Bible, or if you or if you come from a world where you just you just like the Bible says it, I believe it, and you've not done any research on the Bible, right, then you don't realize what you're saying, right? This is a this is a book that's thousands of years old, yeah, that has a history. And there are some things in there that are challenges. And this this is probably the most debated, one of the most debated sections. Um, so when you get to the story, you have to figure out as a preacher how to talk about it. But you don't want to shake the faith of the person who's just starting to read scripture, but you also don't not want to mention it because the very first thing they're gonna see is maybe this isn't in the Bible. Yeah. So what I can tell you is there what I can tell you is there's some contextual challenges, but through the process of diligence and prayer and history, we decided that it belongs here and this is where it lands, and this is what we're studying.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Yeah. What was the we're we're not obviously there for those conversations and the arguments for or against, and then there's just the church history going back to to them wrestling with it. But do you think content-wise there's there was a wrestle for them with it being in here? Uh if you from me? Yeah, for them.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Yeah. So the early church fathers hated the story. Right. They hated the story because they thought uh they thought that it gave permission for adultery. Um, so that this because because of the way they're reading it, uh, they thought it gave permission for adultery, so they didn't like the story at all, so they would have fought to leave it out. But if you go through and you study it, like once again, it says nothing to do with adultery and everything to do with Jesus and his positioning and how he identifies with our sin, and then the full message that he gives to the to the whole crowd that's there, it just happens to be that that was the instance that brought the woman in there. Right. But the whole story together tells a larger picture of Jesus present to sin. So as as hard as this would be for some on a Sunday and even in the podcast, so many families, second, third marriage, maybe first marriage was destroyed by adultery, maybe you yourself or your spouse, so you know the pain of or you know the experience of, yeah, and how destructive it can be. So when you deal with this, it'd be so easy to identify it just down to that one topic. Maybe a better way to hold this is to, is to you can't, but to try and avoid those feelings and step back and look at it in a way that allows you to take the whole story into context to maybe see what what Jesus would have to say about that. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

It's good context. So let's jump into it. Okay. Um, Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, so he comes back to the temple, a crowd is gathered, he was teaching them. As he's speaking, Pharisees bring this woman who had been caught. It says in the act of adultery, they parade her up, put her in front of the crowd. So we don't know the backstory, other than this is what we know. Um then they say this woman was caught in the act of adultery, the very act of the very act, so you get the sense of like not hearsay, this was happening. So um the law of Moses says to Stoner, what do you say?

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yep. So the setting Jesus is it's the festival of the booths, I believe. I gotta go back and look at that. I'll confirm that by Sunday. But there's a there's a festival going on. Jesus is daily takes his position in the temple. If you've ever been to Israel or if you want to study it or look at it. It's it's not easy to get to the temple. I mean, you got a long way to go, a lot of stairs to get to. They know where to find him. This the chapter right before this, the chief priests are trying to deal with Jesus. They're trying to have so they they're but so they're there's already this plan that's in motion to try and deal with Jesus. Right. They know where he's gonna be, so they f that this is their plan. They find this, find this woman or they catch her in the very act of adultery. The way that the story unfolds seems as if there was a an orchestrated um setup, right? Act of adultery, because there's a there's a woman and no man. Where is the guy? Where's the guy?

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Where's the dude?

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Where's the where's the other part of this, right? So but but you have to be careful because remember, this is not about adultery. So at some point you're not trying to dismiss the case, but that's what's happening in front of them. So you have to deal with the fact that Jesus is teaching whatever it was we don't know what he's talking about, but Jesus would have been talking, and then here comes this giant mess of humanity, and they throw this woman into the middle of this crowd. It says they have her stand before them. That word stand does not mean stand up, that means to stand before them as in be presented before them. So whatever Jesus was talking about would have, you know, then faded away for this spectacle, this obstacle. Right. So you have to there's two things you have to hold. If this was a legal discussion, that's one conversation, right? But this is really a trial and a shaming. So there's two ugly things that are happening. Yeah. They're trying to trap Jesus, meanwhile, shaming this woman, and they've raised the stakes to put Jesus on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

So by the law, the guy should have been there too, and subject to punishment. If we're go if we're looking at the legal side of it. So if we're looking at the public shame of it, um, you see these religious people. These are the people that are supposed to be representative of God to the world, and now they've brought this woman maybe naked, you know? I mean, maybe they've it's just the most public shame you could possibly have. And really they're just using her to try to trap Jesus into what?

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yeah, I mean, if well, I'm I'm I'm trying to I'll I'm not trying to tell you to stop asking me about the actual act of the law because but because I don't I don't want to I don't want people in there that's in the that's listening and that'll be there on a Sunday to be zeroed in on that one point. But the law would have required two witnesses of the actual act, and the Jewish law as it pertains to adultery isn't just seeing two people in bed. They have to not to be graphic, but they have to actually witness the act, and then you have to bring the people forward, and then those two witnesses would have had to testify to what they had to see. So they're woefully short of of any sort of of trial. Right. But but make no mistake, this is not about a it doesn't, this would not have been a trial. You you don't just like in our courts today, it's not like you find somebody out across the street of the courthouse that did something you drag and throw them into the judge and say and then ask the judge's opinion about how to how to read on a law. Like it's it's never gonna be done that way. So this is just it's lunacy. Yeah. And and if you want to take it and and the the idea of the shame that that that's happening to this woman, the church is still doing this to this day. It's just we're not dragging somebody into the public square. We're just shaming them online, right? We're kicking them out of the church. We're doing a lot of different things to out people or to, you know, that that are causing shame to people. So you look, just look at the big cluster that's in front of you in front of Jesus. And what he does is so amazing. Um, so so all that information we just talked about, it it's it's foolish to try and say, do they have what they need for a trial? Not even close. It was never about it. It was never even about the trial. It wasn't about the adultery, it was about trapping Jesus. Right. And and and I I've tried to go back and say, what is the trap? I I think the trap has to be they knew he couldn't, that the Jews couldn't declare martial law. They could or they not martial law, uh uh capital punishment. Right. But they're trying to put him in a spot to be able to do it. So they're they're literally trying whatever they're doing to try and trap Jesus, they're they're trying to put him in a spot to where he's in a catch 22 and he can't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Exactly, yeah. Because if he says nothing, forgiveness, they can use that against him if he says yeah, stoner, they can use that against him. And they go to Rome and say, hey, look what this guy's trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yeah. Yeah. So this is this is not about adultery. It's about getting Jesus and they're destroying lives in the process. And don't care. Yeah. That's an issue. Right. A big one. And I think that's one where the church uh w we fall into from time to time.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

I I I I just yeah, you can't I you can't lose the religious uh context. I mean, I I say that word, but you know, these are the people that are supposed to be the ones to know God more than anybody else, or at least we think that. And they're the ones that are, you know, just just making a mockery of all of this, and this woman, treating her less than than even human to just to make a point and to try to get Jesus into saying something. But what he does is pretty miraculous um as as he can do, but he stooped down and rode in the dust with his finger.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yep. So his posture is he he kind of hunches over and starts to write on the ground. In this setting, you would have had all these guys standing around shouting accusations, trying to push him for a for a thing. She more than likely would have been in just a pile. And so what so visually, what you have is Jesus on the same level as the woman taking taking the shame, changing the imagery, changing the sight line, not responding. Now, my Bible doesn't have this translation. I gotta go back and find that where it says as if he didn't hear them. That's not in my scripture. I need to go back and figure out where that's at, what that variation is. But it says as if he didn't hear them until they press further. Then Jesus stands up. So the body positioning changes. So he stands up from where he's at or straightens up and he speaks directly to them. Let he who's without sin cast the first stone. We got to talk about that. That's gonna be probably maybe the main main crux of the sermon. And then he and then he goes back down to identify on the level with the woman. Then he starts to write back in the sand. Everybody, you and I even talked about a little bit, everybody is enamored by the sandwriting.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

I've heard everything from, and these are all, these are all 100% maybe. That's what we're here for, right? That's right. Um, somebody, somebody this morning said, Do you think he was sifting through the sand to show that there was no stone to throw? Uh no, I that was the first time I heard that one.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Yeah, I haven't heard that.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Um, do you think he was writing the names of the people who had been caught in adultery? Do you think he was writing the sins of the people that were in the crowd?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Maybe. Maybe. You had a sermon, you were talking today about a sermon of drawing the line in the sand. Um, all of those have plausibility. They're all fun to preach. The truth is the text doesn't tell us. Right. Doesn't tell us.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Um now I kind of love that.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah. I like unresolved. I hate unresolved, but I love it.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

But in this instance, I think it's more I think it's more powerful.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

In what way?

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Um because you can you can you can I don't want to say imagination because that makes it seem like, you know, um like a story that didn't happen, but you can let your your heart kind of wander. And I think God speaks to each of us in our own, you know, in a in a very specific way in a specific time. And I think what, you know, God might lay on your heart could be different than what he lays on my heart at different times, you know, same God, same mission, but we just we have different lives, we have different things, different struggles, and all that. And so I think there's a real beauty in not knowing because what do you do once you know? Then we tend to just put these guardrails around that thing and and try to make a system out of it. It's much like this thing, and he has something to say to the people in that crowd and to this woman. And I think it's uh impactful because you see the result of it. We get to we don't know what he said, but we we get to see what happens with what he said.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Great point. Because they what do they do? Start to wander off. Yep. By the oldest. That's another one. We don't know why. People like to say because they maybe recognize their sin first or that they realize they were more sinful, but uh still uh it meant something to John. It's a very interesting detail.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

The oldest first. So you see, if you follow the story, it's not a lot of verses, but um he says it, he writes something, but he also says, Okay, if he who has never sinned, throw the first stone, get after it. When they heard this, where they heard him say it, maybe when they saw what he wrote, they slipped away one by one, beginning with oldest. So it is it's even a dramatic scene, you know? It's very theatrical, like thinking of you've got this whole crowd, you've got these stones being dropped, you've got them leaving one at a time. Like it's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

So there was a thought that came out. The first one that I heard that I was like, that's very plausible. Not about the writing, but about what was happening during the writing. So first of all, If if you're talking to a child or anybody, an adult, and they're not looking at you and they're just writing on the ground, that's a completely that's completely disconnected from what you're doing. It's not bothering them. They're writing or they're drawing. I mean, maybe he's intently writing. He could be, but just that very act of disassociating from what's happening takes the pressure off of the scenario, right? So let's just let's just go with that. Whether that's true or not, that's true. That would be a that would be an actual realization of what you're looking at. So if you started this whole debacle with the shame on the woman, Jesus stands up, he makes his declaration, let he who's without sin cast the first stone, and then he reassumes the position. There would have been time process and then a slow realization that I can't throw this stone. Where's the sh shame shifting? Right? It would have been back to walk away. Yeah. Ugh. Walk away. So there is a slow shifting of the pain, slow. She still would have been deeply hurt. Yeah. But the recognition of every single one of those jokers and the crowd around, and for her to see that they were just as sinful in that act, not the act, but in the in what they did as she was in her adultery. They they couldn't pronounce judgment on her. Right. And they walked away. So I do think that that protracted, you said it was dramatic. You could see that because sometimes silence is the best thing, just the look on someone's face where they realize, and probably the oldest would have said, Oh and then dropped the stone. I didn't think of the sound of the stones hitting the ground, and then them, then them walking away one at a time, um, would have been somewhat redemptive for her. Right. And if even if it wasn't redemptive, it would have been a a realization or a or a releasing of the grip of shame on their on her neck, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Yeah. Right. There's a great line in a YouTube song that says, I knew much more then than I do now. The older you get, the less you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Can I so let's unpack this is gonna be sermon on Sunday, so uh maybe I'll say it better on Sunday, but let's unpack the question. Yep. He was without sin cast the first stone. I think sometimes that's interpreted this is Scott's track today, Tuesday, before Sunday, Wednesday, say it's Wednesday. Um let he was without sin cast the first stone. Sometimes I've always thought of that as we all have sin, so nobody can cast the first stone. I I don't I don't think that that's exactly what that means here. Uh Gudzik is, he he preaches this in a way that caused my brain to start clicking on this. I think it's more akin to let he was without sin in this accusation cast the first stone because they show up there to destroy. They're they're showing up there with the ruse. They, whether they set it up or whether they found it to destroy Jesus, their motivation wasn't to to solve the sin that this woman had created or to bring healing, it was to destroy Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

So he's basically saying, let he who's without sin in this instance, cast the first stone. And they're all like, eh. Yeah. We came here to do something, had nothing to do with this. Right. So I think it's really an acknowledgement that this is not about the adultery, this is about our heart towards wanting to destroy you. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm going to tell you that if cross-examination, I tell you, I saw it, and they'd be like, Well, did you set it up? I set it up, but I also saw it. Yeah. You know, I at some point that's not going to hold the hold the greater point. So they all had to walk away. Yeah. And none of them could could do it. I think it's still true to say that Jesus was the only one that could throw the stone because he did not have sin. But even in that instance, you but you can't get to a world to where none of us can deal with sin, because I think it's important for us to deal with sin. But what we cannot miss, and this might be the main point Sunday, is the way Jesus shows up. He is viewing not just that sin, but their sin as an opportunity to redeem. If you go read John 3, 16 and 17, I did not come into this world to con, or the Son of Man did not come into this world to condemn this world, but that the world might be saved. So he he didn't show up to condemn. He showed up in a world full of sin to bring um to salvation. So he didn't show up there to say, yeah, you sinned, you deserve a stone, because everyone in that circle deserved a stone. Right. Everyone, not her, yes, her. Everybody that was there. He was the only one that could hold the line between the destructiveness of the sin and the desire to redeem. So he shows up in this story. So that's why I say this is not about a adultery. This is about all of our sin. And the recognition that the the shame that we so quickly cast on everybody else, we should be quick to consider our own sin and the destructive nature of what it is. Uh scripture says that godly sorrow leads to repentance, that we have a voice inside of us that we've taught to drown it out that would let us know that these things that we're stepping into causes destruction. And man, let's listen to that before the world ever gets us to that point.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Yeah. Or that voice inside us, how how about we justify it every which way we can? And then find others that feel the same way and let's do it together.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Let's create a group, right? Let's do this whole thing together. And if you feel that's, you know, surely. Well culture has taught us that if what's done in silence doesn't hurt anybody else or what's done as secret doesn't hurt anybody else, that's as far from the truth as possible. Yeah. It's that, it's that voice, it's the spirit of God that is, you know, um, Jesus doesn't tell her, I forgive you. He says, Go and sin no more. Yeah. So there she's gotta still go deal with her sin. She's gonna go home to a very angry husband. This is not gonna be done here. The word's gonna spread. Her life will probably still be destroyed, but it won't be because Jesus destroyed it. She's gotta own the penalty of her sin and there'll be consequence for that. But but but Jesus has has shown her grace, whether that's eternal grace, that's a whole nother sermon. Or the understanding of go forward and do things that are in keeping with righteousness, uh, then the outc then penalty maybe won't be there the same. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Well, there's a real uh uh mind uh explosion here of realizing like Jesus is uh the only one who can actually condemn the sin. And he shows up and maybe they expect him to or want him to or demand him to, and he does not. And so this really story, because we've had some stories, especially encounters with Jesus, where uh we see this great faith, we see this forgiveness, and we don't we don't have any of that. We don't know the woman's level of faith. We don't even see in this instance where Jesus says, I forgive you. He just says, Where where those that were gonna condemn you? So Yeah, woman, where are your accusers? What does that say to you about this d this really doesn't again have anything to do with the woman? But what does it show you about the heart of God?

SPEAKER_00 29:06

A lot. All of the things. I I uh the the the the concept that I'm working with as I'm moving towards Sunday is that this is a literal picture of John 3.16. As in you find Jesus in a circle of people that are sinful, and he lowers them. So he who had no he who knew no sin became sin for us. He identifies with and bears bears our sin. The one who could have just said, like with Noah, just flushed the toilet and got rid of everybody, doesn't do that. He doesn't do that. He comes and he walk he puts on flesh and he walks among us, still doesn't sin, but then takes the sin of the world upon himself. He comes with a heart to to offer redemption. The the one who is offended. Like I mean, like our sin, long come this is a whole theological right uh quadrum. When we sin, is the sin against God? Is it against others? I think the answer is yes, right? It's yes. But but what what what Jesus positioning in this is there is life to be found out of the brokenness of sin. So this story is a is a picture of of God right in the middle of it offering us a different way. I I don't I don't condemn you, go and sin no more. Somewhere in there is a decision of accepting the grace, and and let's hope she did. Accept the grace and we would then we would quickly the modern vernaculars tag forgiveness on that, but accept the grace that Jesus offered you and sin no more, but you're still gonna sin. This is our this is our plight in humanity. A couple different ways that I think I'm I'm just talking now. There's a couple different seats you can get in. If you're a person who's who's who's experienced the pain of adultery on any side, you can view the story from that side, or or the pain of a sin from any side, you can view it from that side. You then have to view it from the side of somebody who's on the outside looking in. How do you view that person? How do you restore that person? What's God's view of that person? And then I think the picture of salvation that is given from the whole. So I think there's three levels. And depending on what what your life experience brings you to to this story, one of those three might be fully informed as you're kind of going through it. Either it's gonna bring you red into the hurt, maybe the shame. That's this is the danger of going through this, as you may hear hear me start reading John 8 and go, ah, as you're sitting with family and you're sitting with folks, and you just instantly have that thing that this is not that's never that's never where we want to be. Right. So you're gonna see me pointing to the fact that as believers, we've got to handle that differently. Yeah. But Jesus didn't dismiss it because there's a you're paying for it in your own body, you're paying for it inside of your family. There is a consequence for the sin. And then it's the learning and growing and going forward in sin no more, because the sin's still gonna cause harm. Then there's the picture of Christ and understanding uh maybe the word is the nature of God that that's that's the decision he made. Uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Is it yeah, I finding yourself on either side of this, because I think there's truly probably a lot of us that'll come in Sunday feeling shame or having shame or carrying shame, however you want to say that. And maybe it's we bury that too. So maybe, you know, there are some things that cause that to grow out, or we're on this side of being pretty judgmental about others' sin without really recognizing our own. You know? So what I mean, what are you hoping for someone who is on either side of that? Like, I think you probably mentioned it too, and um, you know, Kat talked about it even just with the the speck in your eye and the or the log in your own eye and the speck in your friend's eye, about understanding maybe more of the heart of God, how what his true heart is for humanity and us to be more like that. But what about the person who doesn't know what to do with the shame and maybe is just kind of buried that in or is struggling to move forward in that?

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Oh, great questions. I I think uh maybe a challenge of a mistake is to say uh look inside of ourselves for the for the the ability to forgive someone else or to for the ability to forgive ourselves. I I think maybe a better place to start is what is God's heart about this, and then pray that God gives us that heart. So it's the transformation of our heart. So if you're a person who has, who's on the outside looking in, maybe, um, and you're and you're thinking about judging someone, to try and capture God's heart towards the love for this woman or the love towards someone else means that you've got to reconcile that God was willing to overlook the offense that happens to him to bring reconciliation, not just to the person who caused it, but also to the whole. Like his, you can't, you you know, there's a whole group of people that he's trying to reconcile. And it's not just the woman, it's the people that are around too. All of them, all of them should catch a rock in the face. All of us should catch a rock in the face. Right. Right. So from the outside looking in, it's trying to capture the heart of God. From the inside looking out, not just the woman, but every single person that had to set the stone down. If you're the person that feels the shame, um, shame, shame is not, that is not, I would not say that is the nature of what God would do cause. I think it's the awareness that godly sorrow, let's get back to that phrase, godly sorrow that brings repentance. It's the recognition that actively living in that life is apart from God and causes the destruction. So it doesn't, it doesn't change the way that God views you, but the sin is what causes so much destruction. So God wants you to be changed to stop the brokenness and the sin. He loves you. You're looking at Jesus, who is with a person and that that's that's been caught in the act of adultery, whether right or wrong, and he places himself on her level to love her, to take that shame from her. So if you carry shame, you need to understand how God feels about you, right? Like the way that he loves you, the fact that he would come and bear that shame on a cross for you, it doesn't immediately remove your shame, but at least you can start with the recognition that God doesn't want you to have it. He doesn't want you to have it. And in fact, he wants you to have life. So in the midst of a law whose purpose was, oh man, let's I'm gonna squirrel.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

All right, let's do it. So the law has the ability to reveal sin. Yep. Okay. Um it also the law can give us the how to make atonement for that sin, but in in without Jesus, it wasn't never atonement. It was always to push the sin back. It was always to push the sin back. It never can down the road. Yeah, because uh because the blood of animals would never atone for the sin of of human it it took it took the sin, a sinless sacrifice, humanity was Jesus. So really all that we have with just the law is the ability to say, you're wrong. I'm wrong. Yeah, we're all wrong. Except that Jesus stepped into the picture to give us another way. So, so Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, and that there was no bridge to reconnect to be able to offer redemption. And so he bore that sin, and it's by our faith and our belief and the fact that he was that sacrifice that we could have that. So, really, you see the law running slam into grace in this story, and Jesus saying there's there's something else. Were they they were just doing what they had been taught all along? Yeah, but what they missed was the fact that um that they were just as guilty. Now, uh you can go back into Leviticus and you can look at all those different things. Why, why that's a that's a squirrel. Forget that. What why was that one allowed to stone somebody versus something else? Um the the law really protected life or the giving of life, and so with adultery, family of origin, child being born out of wedlock, no covering, what that would mean for Israel for the future. Um there so there were there were certain acts and intimacies and things that were protected to protect the family, to make sure that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, all of that stuff would continue to go. So there were just higher echelons of law, but really all law is sin and the payment of sin is death. Yep. Um shut up now, but uh there's a lot that was that did not answer your question. That went down some rabbit holes, but it's a lot there.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

It's good though. There is a lie there. Yeah. Um, one thing that I've noticed this this week sitting with this, though, is the even the line in the sand, if you want to use it visually like that. I mean, it was offered up to the religious leaders here too, the Pharisees. There's so many times you see Jesus come in, he's flipping tables, people love that Jesus. Yeah, he's right in the wrongs that these people are doing. You know what? He shows up, he doesn't condemn them in this moment either. He offers them the same, he shows them, hey, this is who, this is who I am. This is this is how you're supposed to handle this. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, they could they could have those moments and hope, you know, maybe they had maybe somebody there had that that repentance and that heart change too in that moment. But that was offered up to everybody, not just for her.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Yeah, yeah. This is a better way to handle this, guys. Restoration, right? Like find somebody that's caught in this, let's, let's deal with the sin, let's bring, let's bring healing, let's work through that. Yeah, yeah, I I think that's a wonderful point. He offered them grace as well.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yep. Love him. Love Jesus. Um awesome, man. I appreciate it. There's a lot here. I don't want to take away everything from Sunday. We still want you to come and tune in and and be here in person if you're able to. And um, yeah, but thanks for thanks for the time. I know it'll it'll get um it'll get writ as the week goes on of just just those those uh specific thoughts and takeaways that that we're gonna get.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

This podcast really helps me to organize and pull my thoughts together, and then also to get off of the podcast and go, that's not it.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Yeah. Don't say that on Sunday. See? We're helping here. That's it. We're helping here. 100% here on 100%, maybe. So anyway, thanks for tracking along you guys. We hope to see you this weekend. Questions of Jesus. Love y'all. See ya.