100% Maybe

Ep. 31 - Thessalonians: Resurrection Hope

• CLC Gulf Breeze • Season 1 • Episode 31

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In this episode of 100% Maybe, we dive into Paul’s teaching on the end times in 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5, and why it was never meant to create fear, confusion, or endless speculation.

Instead, Paul anchors everything in hope.

As we talk through what it means to expect the return of Jesus, we’re reminded that this isn’t about decoding timelines or predicting events. It’s about living with a hopeful expectation, and a steady confidence that Jesus is coming back.

We also explore how Paul calls believers to live holy and set apart lives, not withdrawn from the world, but as a visible example of Christ in it. In a world full of questions and uncertainty, we wrestle with the tension of studying Scripture deeply while also trusting God with what we don’t fully understand.

Because ultimately, the timing isn’t ours to figure out...it’s His.

Join us as we learn to hold tightly to what matters most—and loosely to what doesn’t.

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the 100% Navy Podcast. I'm your host, Jeff Stewart, the Creative Director here at Community Life Church in Gulf Breeze, Florida. Each episode, we'll get together to talk about the scripture passage that we'll be studying in our Sunday services. While this started as a resource for our church, we found it applies to all of us who are interested in what it looks like to follow Jesus. So wherever you are on your journey of faith, we hope these conversations will connect you to the source of life we have in Jesus and to the greater story that God is still writing today. Here's our episode. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01

The only thing we're missing is a bobblehead Jesus somewhere in here that we can ask questions to. It's on your dashboard. That got you out of a ticket. It got you out of further investigation. Further investigation. But it was just a roadblock. It was nothing. It was Mississippi. I had a bobblehead Jesus. If you're curious, Bobblehead Jesus will get you out of a lot in Mississippi.

SPEAKER_00

When they saw Scott's bobblehead Jesus, they thought, this guy's not here to cause trouble. Let him go.

SPEAKER_01

He said he does not need an insurance card. He's got all the insurance he needs. That that's a direct quote from the police officer. I love it. The problem was I'd have been on my phone trying to load my insurance card, and I think he was like, I don't have time for this. Yeah, he looked, he said, that guy is too straight-laced. He definitely has insurance. He said, Oh, how wound I was, how tight I was wound up. He knew I had to.

SPEAKER_00

I got it here somewhere, sir. Uh please.

SPEAKER_01

He's like, bobblehead, Jesus.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, hey guys, that's how we're gonna uh get into this episode today. What could possibly go wrong with Jesus in uh roadblock in Mississippi? You just never really know what you're gonna get when you tune in here to 100%, maybe. But you're gonna get something. But here you are. Here you are. You did it. Yeah, so welcome. Man, thanks for uh sitting down with me again, yet again. There's a favorite part of the week. There's a um there's a buzz going on about this this episode. This chapter? This these two chapters.

SPEAKER_01

Two chapters? I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00

First Thessalonians. People are excited. I had so many guys stick their head in and be like, can't we? When I'm carrying books like this around, it means we got a lot of material to cover. Yeah, what do you have there? Do you want to share that?

SPEAKER_01

That is a systematic theology book.

SPEAKER_00

That looks like a big book. It's a lot of words, no pictures. Not my favorite book. Systemize our theology. Make it make sense.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

And have you made sense of everything?

SPEAKER_01

I've focused on two chapters at the moment. Okay. Eschatology or end times. Yes. And um I don't want to take anything away from Sunday, but I've I've made a major discovery. Really? Yeah. That everybody's making it up. I don't even know about that. Everybody's making it up. I did know that.

SPEAKER_00

Dang it.

SPEAKER_01

I thought you had something you were holding out. No, no, I know. I've already told you. Everybody's making it up. Um everybody's making it up and with educated guesses.

SPEAKER_00

Uh-huh. But uh I think what I said to my group last night at one point is hey, all of these elements are in the scripture. Sure. It's there. Yeah. You got end times, Jesus' return, which we'll talk we'll talk way more about. This it's all in there. You can connect the dots. Um, what happens to us when we die? That's gonna be what we're talking about. Um but are we? Well, it's there. Is that a foreshadowing? It's a it's mentioned, it's a wonder like that that we have. I think people have uh have wrestled with that, have that question. You know, what happens to us? So all that is there, but yes, the only thing that is universally agreed upon is Jesus is coming back. How, when, what does it look like, who's he got with him, where's everybody going, what happens, that is has been debated for hundreds of years.

SPEAKER_01

There's there's a few, there's maybe a few more things outside of just that that are that are you that are agreed upon in the evangelical church. But even in that, those you after two steps away, it goes crazy. One of the things that was first of all, we're in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 or 5, we're in our series called uh Thessalonians Hope Endures or Hope That Endures. Hope that Endures. Um what was the biggest uh contrast for me? So the way I the way I uh handle my my Bible study, oh that's a terrible phrase, uh, is I read the scripture and then we talk about it. So I read through chapter four and chapter five, and man, they all were like, that's not what my Bible says. And then somebody would offer, well, here's what mine says here, and then they're like, Well, mine doesn't say that. Mine says this, and mine says this, and mine says this, and I mean all over the map. Yeah, not even like a variation of a word, like uh not to change the meaning, but to but to redirect the meaning to to a to a maybe a particular belief system or or what somebody holds on to. And here's here's what's so so uh what I think you have to hold in all of this is that even in the translations of our Bibles, uh, the people who are translating have a theological um system that they work from. Yeah. And they're gonna translate to the best of their ability from the language, but if it comes down to a question, they're going to move it in a direction of probably what they believe. Now, maybe that's not always the case, but I you could see it so plainly today. Um one of the gentlemen actually suggested maybe on Sunday morning you don't say open your Bibles because it might create confusion. I I think it actually makes the point. The point to me is that when Paul talks about faith, hope, and love, which is the foundation of everything that's written in this book, and then he introduces topics like eschatology, which is the study of the last things. Yeah. That's the Greek word for the study of the last things. Um what we would call end times. End times, yeah. End times another way to say it. Uh I think he introduces those topics with the hope of us having hope that Jesus is going to return, not thinking it's going to cause massive confusion, but always anchor in faith, hope, and love. Like we still have to get back to what we're going to do today.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

We can go out and do rapture practice. I mean, I was a little joke, and uh a little bit of joke of that yesterday, but at the end of the day, you have to faith, hope, and love. There's transformation, there's loving your neighbor, and then there's living with the hope of that's to come.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That's good. What I don't know how much you'll be able to get into it on Sunday. I wanted to ask you about your philosophy, I guess, on teaching what you might I've heard you call bookend ideas. And I think you touched on a little bit here of just there's there's a life that we are currently in. Those of us that are alive today, right now, have to live that life. We make decisions, we choose to live out our faith or not. There are things that we are responsible for. There are gifts that we have. You said last week, we are representatives of God here also. So our life matters. What we do matters, which I think um in the beginning of four is is gonna be Paul's point there about our our uh holy living. But why do you or what what troubles have you seen come out of not focusing too much because it is an important part of faith but I guess not to try to fully understand and land on something in these bookend things that perhaps not as important as daily living. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So my point after week one was not to get stuck in the ditch. But I might be stuck in a ditch. Self-awareness, it's uh probably the hardest thing to to to discover. Uh so my main point was there's a lot of things I think that we a lot of denominations, a lot of thoughts, a lot of groups, they get stuck in ditches. And some like to talk about creation a lot. Some like to talk about end times a lot. Some like to talk about heaven and hell a lot. Some have in their churches they have a cross that's painted red, white, and blue with stars and a a political affiliation a lot. Like uh those are all areas that we should talk about and that we should be engaged in and what what where I have always been. So if you're gonna look at my theology, and maybe I'm stuck in a ditch, I have to own that, is I I try to stay and focus more on the the carry the the the process of what's going on in life right now. Because I find that the large sum of people in our modern context are trying to figure out how to help raise their they need help raising their children. What do I do when ends don't meet? What do I do when I'm s when I've lost my job and I've got to figure out what's next? What does purpose look like for me in my life? Um uh family member suddenly passed away. What does that mean for them? How do I, what is what does salvation mean for me? Uh those are those are the questions that I I feel speak more to the masses. It doesn't, it doesn't mean that I don't think those things are important, the end times or the creation stories or all of those. Yeah. I just know that based on the example that I gave you earlier, even when you get into translations and you start to study them, all of the not not just all of the denominations, but many denominations, they have lots of thoughts and theologians about all of this. And it's there's a few things they can anchor on, and then man, just not make it up. I don't I always I always say that tritely, but they're not making it up. Right.

SPEAKER_00

These are really smart people spending their life's work studying these things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they're they're making educated guesses based on what they see here. But it's it it's gotta be 100% maybe. Yeah. Right? This is the baseline of this of this whole this whole thing.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Two completely different conclusions from the same material.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And if and if somebody's watching this and doesn't know anything about the Bible, they they have no context for even what we're gonna read today, but there is a section in our text that talks about the return of Jesus. And I think the most important thing, and I hope to drive this home on Sunday, is it's for a believer, it should never be cloaked in fear. Ever. Ever. The early church held it as a as an excitement and as a hope, the baseline of hope that Jesus is gonna return. And and then you and I just briefly before we started, we had the conversation about well, you what do you think about Paul? The fact that he was pretty sure Jesus was gonna come back, and then he died, but he's asleep, according to scripture. Yeah. Um, but he didn't return. So was he wrong? Was he this false prophet? Was he this? We didn't have that conversation, but uh but that's out there. Yeah, it's out there. Yeah, that's right. There's that's out there that people would have would have said maybe he was a false prophet, maybe missed that, and so throw all that out.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01

I I I think it's the better, just in in my studies, trying to anchor in solid voices that would say it makes more sense that each generation or each group for history, every generation, and I don't know how you divide that up, has had reason to hope in the return of Christ. We see signs, we see those things that are there, um, and you hope for it to be there. You think of the sex uh World War II, Hitler, and if that guy isn't the Antichrist, who isn't? Absolutely fits the the antithesis of all things Christ. So I see the one, is it coming? There were a lot of people that believed it's over, it's coming down, it's done, and then history wanes, and you go into a different especially as connected to the nation of Israel.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And that I mean 100%. Because you can't separate that piece from it all, too.

SPEAKER_01

It it looked like it was the clearest mode. But then all of that kind of wanes and goes back in. But man, you could go into all sorts of countries and spots, and you see the persecution of believers, uh, you see what's going on in the world, wars, rumors of wars, people that set up as the antichrist, natural disasters, natural disasters, uh uh the the one big one that everybody holds on to. So there's there's the understanding of eschatology or end times being predicated that all of the world will hear the gospel. Well, man, technology in such a way does get it to the corner of the world, unless you're in some remote island somewhere. So, how is it ever going to be possible?

SPEAKER_00

You know, I there's entire ministries built around taking it to the unreached people of the earth because we gotta get them back. That's the fulfillment also of then Jesus can come back once that happens. There's there's that.

SPEAKER_01

And then there's another ministry that'll go, well, no, it's already been done, right? Like, let's go back. Paul made it to Rome. Rome was the center of the world. That was for then. So that one's done. So that like you're you're in this space where if you're a new believer, you can get real anxious as a as a longtime believer. I'm anxious about it. Because I, you know, well, because you have to talk about it. And I want clarity. I want clarity, but man, it's clarity's hard to find. So like I have to anchor in the things that I know and then just say, man, those are really cool things to talk about. Yeah, I'll get you some. Um, but I'm gonna probably stay focused in this spot. What what I have always promised is when when we cover texts that have to do with things, we're gonna talk about them. Sure. Whether it's sexual immorality, whether it's uh uh end times, or even get to creation, we're gonna talk about those things because it's in the text, and I don't think it's fair to not. But I'm not gonna deviate so far off that people leave on Sunday morning confused or concerned or or lost. Yeah. We gotta get back to, and I don't think if you take First Thessalonians in its entirety, there's no lack of clarity. Right. He anchors it in the transformation of what he's calling them to.

SPEAKER_00

Again and again, yeah. Let's kick it off with four and we'll end up getting where we get to. But um sanctification, that can be kind of a big church fancy word. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01

That means um we we had a we had some talk about that today. Uh immediately someone will throw out the word holiness. That is another church word. Harder to understand, maybe even than sanctification. But its basic definition means to be set apart. Well, then you need clarity. From what? So to be set apart from the world, to me, it uh maybe the best way that I've understood it is to be sanctification is the process of becoming less like the world or the brokenness of the world and more like God or more Christ-like. It's sanctification is the process. Um justification is the accepting of Christ's sacrifice and his righteousness. So when we stand before this is important, when we stand before God, we don't stand before God in our righteousness. His righteousness has become our righteousness. So maybe there's some some semantics that can be done there, but we uh what we have the righteousness of Christ because of our belief. So when God looks at us, he doesn't go, ooh, mm-hmm. No, he sees the righteousness of Christ. Yeah. But while we are here walking this planet, we go through a process of sanctification. Where that's or the other where we might use is transformation. Sanctification carries more weight because it's moving towards a sanctified um place. But but uh sanctification might be the goal, but it is the goal of your life, right? I don't know that it's ever it's it would not be reached until the end of life. And never fully realized. And never fully realized. There's probably some theologians, I think Wesley thought that maybe it's attainable, but probably not. He would still put it way outside of arm's length. So, so the first part of chapter four, I would say is most clearly directed towards the Church of Thessalonica about um uh sexual immorality, fornication, um, and how they're treating one another.

SPEAKER_00

Cause in this culture, totally, I don't know, debaucherous, if maybe we'd use that word now. It seems like a weird word to use, but sexually anything goes.

SPEAKER_01

You use a word from then to now. That's which is funny. Yeah, but that's true.

SPEAKER_00

But uh, you know, prostitution, totally acceptable, girlfriends, mistresses, why like there was just anything and everything, a culture of excess. Yeah. So that's that's the context too of we're speaking, like just make yourself happy, do what you want to do, don't deny yourself any worldly pleasure. Yep.

SPEAKER_01

And Paul, and so what Paul does is he draws them back to the scriptural understanding of nuclear family, right? And the safety of what that was, what what the what the Hebrew text would have would have spoken to. So he's drawing so it which would then man, there's a there this could be a six-hour podcast. Um, because I've I've I've probably studied more for this than anything else. I don't want to edit six hours. No, you don't need and nobody wants to listen to six hours. But but the in the Roman world, this'll this will help maybe a little bit, there was a very thin veil, they believe, between the belief in gods and how gods inner not the not god gods, uh how gods interacted with the world. And that could show up in weather, that could show up the weather, whether it's good climate, bad climate, that could show up in wars, success, or not. That could show up in all different things. So, so the the Romans believed in the peace of the gods. And um, I heard I heard this podcast this last week that that man just just helped answer a thousand questions for me. So during the time of the Roman Empire, the the climate of that part of the world was the most conducive historically for rapid growth, food, the ability to sustain life. So it really helped Rome to thrive in that time. So they would view that as the gods are happy. There's peace of the gods. And so then along comes droughts towards the ends of the Roman Empire, where things start to happen regionally, and they would say, clearly, the gods aren't happy. You've lost favor with the gods. That we've lost favor with the gods. And the Romans, they had their pantheon of gods, but then they also would adopt gods from other cultures. Clearly, the gods aren't happy, so we need to offer sacrifice to these gods. Along come the Christians, and because of their belief anchored in Judaism, um, they would not offer sacrifices to other gods. So, guess who got martyred? The Christians. Right. Because they wouldn't offer sacrifices and they're upsetting the gods. And so they would, they always fell into this world of martyrdom. So you get these stories in Thessalonica where you have people that are polytheistic, they believe in all these gods, and then Paul comes along and reconnects and pulls them into the understanding of Judaism as fulfilled in Christ. So Christ becomes their king, that's who they start to worship, and the rest of the town around them is like, that's a problem because you're causing an uproar, you're causing all it doesn't even though it's driven by the Jews, right? Driven by the Jews, and they're like, oh no, no, they're asking them to worship a king. What about our king? So just out of their jealousy, in in this, in the beginning of this, we can go right back to the root that the beginning of the persecution of the church in Thessalonica was jealousy of the Jews. Yeah. And but they blamed it on their worship of Jesus as king and not the emperor as king, and then it just goes back.

SPEAKER_00

They knew what that would cause and do for them.

SPEAKER_01

So back to sanctification, he's calling them to belief in God as revealed in Christ. And all of that, I think all of that goes together. So getting rid of the the impurities of this world, fornication, abusing one another. He wants you to love brothers and sisters. He actually says more and more. So it's a growth. You you love your brothers and sisters. I see that. It's becoming evident to all of Macedonia. Do it more and more. Yeah. It's great teaching.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Paul's funny. No, this is good. Uh Paul's funny to me because he's like, I don't even need to tell you this because you're doing it. But also, I'm going to tell you this. Do it again. And we joked last night about when he says finally, doesn't really mean he's about to be done. He's got a lot more to say after finally. Ever. He's a great preacher. It's like a southern goodbye. It could last for an hour.

SPEAKER_01

He did not have a computer. He was handwriting this. So he's like, finally. Nah, psych. I thought some more things. Finally, for that one thought.

SPEAKER_00

That's right. Yeah. Um that first part is about sanctification. Yeah, and that's important. Um and let's speak to the context. So that'll set us up for for where we're going, for what maybe why Paul's talking about this, because again, the thread and the anchor for this is encouragement and hope. It was never confusion. It was never fear. It was never even understanding for the sake of knowing more. It was for encouragement because you mentioned the the the landscape of what they're dealing with. They're being martyred. They're not looked upon favorably in in these uh areas where the church is exploding and believers are are joining the church and the and the uh following Jesus. Um and so there becomes this thought of like, okay, Paul told us, he's taught us when he was here to expect uh the Lord's return. Paul's message is hey, live this way and be ready because Jesus is coming back and it's gonna be awesome. Now they start some of them start to die. There's there's death among them, and they are thinking, Well, wait a minute, what happens to them because they died before Jesus comes back? Causes them like w what's gonna happen to them? Are they gonna miss out? Like they are they not gonna get the fulfillment of what's going on. So that that's what Paul is speaking to specifically this people this time. And that thought they had.

SPEAKER_01

And we have the same questions, right? I mean, I think we with the so human nature says, okay, how does that work for them when us? Maybe the difference is that Paul was strong on the end time. He's coming back anytime, anytime, anytime. It was a it was a heavy message. We also need to say this is one of his first letters. Right? When you get to Second Thessalonians, he softens a little bit. That doesn't mean that he doesn't believe Jesus is not coming back. It just means he's like, okay, maybe not today. Yeah. Tomorrow. And that's not I'm just I'm having fun with that, but um, so do you have a question? I'm sorry. Or thought. Um well that was my thought. No, you're saying this context.

SPEAKER_00

I just said in the context of we have to remember Paul is not I don't believe Paul is necessarily giving us a complete teaching about eschatology. He is writing to this group of people to comfort them and give them hope and encouragement.

SPEAKER_01

A hundred percent. So as worked up and as crazy as I got in my Bible study this morning, it was a wild time. Never about the scripture, always about there was more platitudes in my Bible study, and I love all my guys than I've ever experienced before. Be but that tells me when when when uh Christianese, the language of Christians, takes over for scripture, then you just go, mmm, right? Like when people start offering platitudes about something, they don't know how to respond to it, or they don't really have a feel about it, or they feel like they should know a way about it. And so they're like, This is how I've thought about that. Put it in a box and set it to the side. When you slow read these chapters, he's offering clarity. They ask, what about Uncle Bob who died? Yeah. Is he gonna is he done? He's not gonna get Christmas. Is he gonna be a part of Christ or something? Is he gone forever? Because the belief during this time, and I think Gutsig probably covered it in his thing. I know that um some of the other stuff that I watched, the belief during this time was that there was, and it shows up with uh Martha and Mary, there will be a general resurrection at the end, right? Like, but everybody else is kind of gone, and so like there wasn't a real strong belief in heaven or you die and you're in eternity. So that like their the overall belief in Judaism, keeping in mind that these are largely Gentiles, was not this strong belief in heaven or thought that we had.

SPEAKER_00

I wanted to I pulled a couple of these things because I think it was interesting context. So these are ancient Greek writers about a lot of there's pessimism about death, and that was just the end. So I think it speaks to this message that Paul has and the things that they're probably wrestling with, and many of us maybe wrestle with the same things, but um, these are some of the ancient Greek writings about it. I uh I googled how to say these words, so I'm I mean their names. They're names. So you're gonna get them all right? I'm gonna get them right. Aeschylus. Okay. Are you familiar with Aeschylus? I went to school with Aeschylus. Did you did not. Uh he says, of a man once dead, there is no resurrection. Okay. Uh Theocritus? About him. Nope. Hope. Hopes are among the living, the dead are without hope.

SPEAKER_01

Are these guys all at the same party?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. Doesn't sound like a fun party. Oh. But it does I did it, man.

SPEAKER_01

Every week. Now you got it all. No, I'll fix it. Just keep going. For those listening, I just jacked the mic.

SPEAKER_00

Hopes are among the living, the dead are without hope. That's a real exciting group. And here is Catullus. Oh. Suns may set and rise again, but we, once our brief light goes down, must sleep an endless night.

SPEAKER_01

You're just a real happy guy.

SPEAKER_00

So that's that is their understanding. That's the writing. These are the philosophers, these are the ones teaching the people, and they're saying, once you're dead, you're dead. You got no hope, you're done. So it's a very different message.

SPEAKER_01

And here you have Greeks that are want to know. Because if that's their modern thought, they're like, wait a minute, there's more.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And so that's what he does in the second half of chapter four. Is he offers some clarity. He says, and it's actually it sound it sounds like God math. He says, I don't want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died. And then he talks about grieving as ones who don't have hope. We we grieve as those who have hope. So we can it's that's the other thing is in this life, you're gonna grieve. You're gonna, you know, you're gonna lose people and it will grieve you as it should. But we grieve in a different way because we have hope as believers of of what God has in store. Um, but then he he uses the resurrection of Christ as the baseline for our understanding of what our lives will be like afterwards. So his theology is anchored in in the resurrection of Christ. Just as Jesus died and rose again, even so through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. That that statement evokes in us a thousand questions, and it did this morning and it does forever. Yeah. But his point is not to answer all the questions, his point is to allow us to be informed that those who have died will will rise. Yeah. He says that they're gonna, that they're gonna rise first, and then we're all gonna be caught up into heaven with Christ.

SPEAKER_00

Caught up, that's where our word rapture comes from. Yep.

SPEAKER_01

So the Latin and and people, man, that's that's another fun rabbit hole to go down. Um I find that most people love to love the rapture. They're looking to get pulled out of here. Um, you know, I hesitate to tell you what I believe because people are gonna be like, how could you possibly remember? We're all just kind of making this up, we're all figuring it out. I don't see a context in which God just snatches his people out. I don't. I see, even with the as what is the scripture that says, as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the coming of the Son of Man. Yeah. They stay on the earth, right? Now, God did purify and wipe everything out, but everybody is still broken, and within a very short amount of time, you know, Noah's naked and sin and everything else starts to happen. Yeah. So um so the word rapture, when when the when the Bible was translated into the Latin Vulgate, it is a derivative of the word that's used here, and so it becomes a part of the vernacular. When then it was retranslated and came back, the word rapture was lost, but people grabbed a hold of it and they hold on to it. So it's this idea that God's gonna the word the word means to be caught up or pulled up. You think of reaching into something and grabbing it and pulling it up. That's that's the picture. So the image of rapture is not wrong. Is it metaphorical? Is it actual? It does say he's gonna return. Yeah, right. This there we this verse is cited a lot in all in all of that systematic theology down there. That whole big book. This one is cited a lot about the uh the archangel's call, the trumpet, um, and then uh what's the other one? Uh there's three things. Uh the cry, the cry of the command, yeah. Heard a teaching, all audible. That the cry of the command is is paralleled with uh uh what are those the boats that are due to the oars? Yeah. So or a war. Yeah, the command is the it's a command, so it's more of a a march cry or a rally cry or whatever that comes along with that. Then you got the trumpet.

SPEAKER_00

Or if you're going into battle and commanders, yeah, call out.

SPEAKER_01

So the one thing that believers do hold on to is that it's and and he it's Jesus that's returning. So things that you want to hold on to is he's gonna return. He's gonna return in the physical natural. Yeah. And it's gonna, and you're gonna hear it. Yeah, right? Yes. It's not gonna be like, uh oh. You're it's just it's there. Yeah. And um, and and and the big pri and so the thing to offer clarity, it wasn't to, it wasn't to of course he had to know it's gonna spin off a thousand questions because he picks it back up in 2nd Thessalonians, but um, it wasn't to cause confusion, it was to say, hey, those who died before you, they're gonna be fine. Jesus is gonna bring them back, and all of us together are gonna be with Christ for eternity. So, like, just for the question that they probably had, hey, what's gonna happen to you know, Uncle Bob that is is no longer with us? Don't worry about it. Just as Jesus died and came back, he's gonna bring them back. They're gonna come back first, and then he's gonna call us up and we're gonna be with Jesus for eternity. And um, and this is how I imagine everybody's been like, oh, that's awesome. Bob in the back, yeah, Bill in the back of like, I got a question, and then and then Paul would have been like, oh no, right? And then we have a thousand questions. But that is exactly what the church does. Sure. It's not enough for us to know that we die, Jesus is gonna bring us back, and we're all gonna be with Jesus for eternity. We want to know what does it look like? How does it feel? Where's this one? What's going on? And those are all great questions. And we want to know when. When? Gotta know now. Gotta know now. And you can't.

SPEAKER_00

When is this gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Let me know. You got an idea? Uh you wanna be a false prophet? Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay, Friday. Uh my thought on that is that Paul never gave this to give a timeline at all. What was the motivation for Paul doing this? To encourage them. Hope. To give them hope. To help them in their grief. To um as comfort and encouragement, this is fully incomplete, I feel like. If you try to make a timeline out of eschatology, it's very incomplete and probably frustrating. And cause then you gotta for those that want to study, you're you're pulling in Daniel 9, you're pulling in Matthew 24, Jesus' prophecy, to try to figure out exactly what that. You're pulling in Revelation 20. So it's all there, but you're really having to connect all these things and make a sense that you understand it fully, and I and I don't think that's was Paul's intention at all. It was not.

SPEAKER_01

It was his intention to give them information about those who died. They're fine. Those who died that were believers, they're coming he's gonna bring them back. He's gonna bring them back first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Let me ask you a question. Um boy. How does how do you feel like living in light of uh I guess an anticipation, a hope? We mentioned that. There's there's never a fear because there was that out there and it's probably still out there. You don't want to be sitting in a movie theater when Jesus comes back, do you? You don't be doing this when Jesus comes back. If it's a G movie. You don't want to be doing that. Are you gonna if when Jesus returns, are you really gonna want to be fishing? Are you gonna do that? So then it becomes this like, Do I need to buy insurance? Right? I mean, really, those are those are it it becomes this guilt-driven, like, you're not gonna do that, are you? But Paul very clearly wanted them to be excited, and he himself was excited about hey, Jesus is coming back, it could be, it could be very, very soon. How does living in light of that truth, how does that help shape our lives today?

SPEAKER_01

That is a million-dollar question. I mean, it's so important and and and one that I think you've got to kind of reconcile in your heart. It wasn't used as a message of fear, it was always used as a message of hope. Okay, so I think you have to hold on to that. So if you're if you're a believer and you are fearful about this, you've missed the point of in the end time discussions, right? If you're a believer. Uh I need to say that the theology of the early church shaped over time, which gives us hope. Because what means we don't have if they didn't have it figured out and they walked with the guy, we still the early church, you get into Acts, they were selling land and giving away their possessions because they didn't need it anymore. Because he's coming back. I don't need to leave this land for my family. They're there, we're not even gonna be here. Yeah. Right? And then and then you get uh where were we in uh uh 50 5180? Right. So this is 20 years after, and he's like, Yeah, he's coming back. And then you get to the next letter, he's like, Hey, pretty soon, hold on. You know, so like you get this extension, and it's not uh, I don't, it doesn't get to the place of I'm not really sure if he's coming back. It's uh it's intended to be the hope and the knowing that God will set all things right. So you have to settle that in your heart. But I I can look in the early church and find that there is um there is a growth and an understanding of their faith to what that return of Christ looks like. And they weren't fully sure. And I think maybe that's probably good. Because I if if we knew that, and I'm telling you, there's people all over the place that know it 100% not maybe. They are they feel like they're convinced. Right. They don't know. How often does somebody say, you know, when this I I started doing this in my mind, I'm like, okay, so Jesus died in 2000 and no, I mean in uh what what is it? Uh uh 2000 years ago. Yeah, 2000 years ago, but we're not there yet. So but when we get there, is it like, ooh, ooh, maybe, maybe. Like I'll be paying attention a little bit better. That's just me doing what everybody's done forever. I think our common mind wants to understand. Yeah. I don't know if that answered any of your questions.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, of course. I don't know that there's a there's not a clean answer. Um, I think there's there's encouragement and there's hope in that. Of it matters. I think God does want us to be expectant of that and excited for that and hopeful in that. I think I think the answers are what are what you said. There's never an intention of fear. The fear comes when we don't understand, or the fear comes when we're trying to make sense of things that we were never supposed to hold on to either, because I uh all the time go back to, you know, my ways are not like your ways, my thoughts are higher than your thoughts. Jesus himself has said, I don't even know. So that'll break your brain. God himself not knowing God the Father's timeline. How does that work? Only the Father, right? If Jesus Himself says, Hey, I I'm not even aware of that timeline. Yeah. How crazy is that? But we're pretty crazy. But we're thinking, but we're gonna jump in here and connect all these dots, be like, oh, I I know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I know the time. One of my favorite verses, and this is a new find for me in the last in the last two weeks, and I've I've maybe have said it, but um I I have the I've I from a as an early believer and even as a child hearing these verses, you always hear it's gonna come like a thief in the night, come like a thief in the night, come like a thief in the night. I mean, everybody has heard that, right? We don't know. Thief in the night. If you just read down two more verses, he says, But you beloved are not in darkness for that day to surprise you like a thief. So you're it's not gonna be a thief in the night, like to you. For you. Why all those years ago didn't they give me that verse in context? It's gonna come like a thief in the night, but you don't need to worry about it as a believer. You're gonna be fine. Yeah. Give me that, man. I've spent my whole life saying, ah, it's not intended to be fearful. That's not it's not a fearful message. Where I do think, and I might have this sorted out by next week or never in my life, is did Paul use the return of Christ as a as a um as a message to prompt non-believers to believe? So was it used, was the fearful side of it used to encourage people to believe? That's a question that I have. That that would signify judgment coming, final judgment. So is is the topic of judgment used to cause people fear? Um, so to make them make a decision? It it's the fear is not to be a part of believers. Believers are to this is to be hopeful. Yeah. So the idea of of end times, eschatology, all those things, it should be a hopeful piece of our lives. Are we gonna have clarity on it fully? No, you're not ever going to. But it's supposed to be hopeful. Uh the part I want to dig into is was Paul using it as a as a tool to to get people to really think about to make a decision. And I anyways, I don't I don't want to go back down that whole road again. But for me in my life, I don't I don't like driving people to make a decision based on fear because I don't think it's a great decision. I think once someone makes a decision based on fear, it doesn't last long. It lasts only as long as the fear is in front of them. So if if the if if you make a decision for Christ because you're afraid that Jesus is coming back tomorrow, and then Jesus doesn't come back tomorrow, oh, but maybe tomorrow or tomorrow or tomorrow or tomorrow, that that decision's not gonna last. It's we're here we are 2,000 years later. And if your decision was made on the fear of that, if you don't have discipleship in your life that drew you to it drove you to a deeper understanding of Christ.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, his and his love for you and his sacrifice for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So then, yeah, that's right. All the rest of the of the things we hold on to, then that's a challenge. So um, who am I to question Paul? But I want to go back in and look at it and and try and determine that. I'm always gonna be a grace guy. I'm always gonna talk about the sacrifice and what God did for us and the brokenness that we have. Because I think there's a couple different ways that you can come at better reconciling and seeing this love that God had for us and not just, hey, you don't want to go to hell. Right. Right? Like join our team.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that makes sense. Anyways, the I love how he closes this letter, his final advice. It's very it reads Proverbsy of just like boom, boom, boom, uh, these quick hits of things, but they are all so deep and so meaningful. Always be joyful, never stop praying, be thankful in all circumstances. We had a great conversation about those things, and um, may the God of peace make you holy in every way. So you may kept blameless until Jesus comes again. I love this, and I'm anchoring to this. God will make this happen for he who calls you as faithful. And Paul's speaking to those things about the work that only he can do in our lives, but I also think to all of this, buddy. God is gonna make all of it happen. There's not a contingency on us understanding this timeline or having this figured out. God is faithful, he's the faithful one, and he's gonna make it happen. I think Paul's just saying, hey, be aware, like faith, hope, and love, right? Could it be as simple as faith, hope, and love?

SPEAKER_01

I hope so. Be sanctified. Don't worry about those who died before, they're gonna be fine. Get get on with it. It's like, can you say that? Sure. Keep keep going. And and I'm gonna take care of it. Yeah, let's just do that. Is that Sunday's message? Yeah. Shortest message ever. Shortest message ever. I'm excited about it. It does, it does allow us to do something I don't typically do, which is to talk about some of the eschatology. Um, but but it's gonna be more of an rather than dive into to deep dive into it, it's gonna be more of an invitation for people to go have those conversations, go study and find out what you believe.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

But but it's information, it's uh it will it will, all of those things should only show up in your life as as processing the work of God, the excitement of what it looks like and how how it transforms us, so that we can go out and say, hey, man, come on. We're excited. There is uh there God loves you, and when he comes back, he's gonna make all things new, and we get to spend eternity in a place that has no sin, no brokenness, no sickness. Um, that's the restoration that will will ultimately come.

SPEAKER_00

When is it gonna happen? Oh no. And not only that being our message, but how about our lives reflecting God's love without us even saying a word about it?

SPEAKER_01

That's right. Yeah. Uh, what does he say? He doesn't say shut up. He says admonish. Yeah, but yeah, mind your business. Be at peace among yourselves. Oh man, that was a great part of it. Yeah. Uh just don't talk a lot.

SPEAKER_00

Live a quiet life, mind your business, work with your hands.

SPEAKER_01

Work with your hands. As we directed you. Right. But I like that live a quiet life. Nobody seems to all those people like to fight at about eschatology. They should start there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I'm just kidding. So does this make you ready to jump into revelation next year? Should we put that on the sermon series? Yeah.

unknown

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01

Ready to jump into revelation. I don't know if you should put it on the book. I I I'm I'm not afraid of teaching revelation. If we can do it in a way that's clear and not a problem for people, it's it's never a I've had people ask me all the time, are you afraid to go into Revelation? Do you not want to talk about that stuff? Do you that has never been my baseline? I find that the most needed message for people is is life. Can we spend six months in Revelation? Yes, we can. And we can walk away from there and go, that's all really cool. How does it affect me and my family today? So if we're going to talk about a practical theology, that's that's where it's at. Doesn't mean I don't believe in that stuff or think we should study it. We absolutely should. Yep. Sometimes it's better in a classroom with 14 people that are kind of working through it and taking time. So please hear me say, I I love all the scripture. We'll get to it all eventually, right? That's the goal is to teach through all the books. But if he comes back before Sunday, I won't have to write it all. That's right. So you're hoping for that.

SPEAKER_00

I'm always hoping that he comes back. Yep. Let's get man. I'm excited. It's gonna be great and uh excited for this Sunday. So hope to see you guys there. Catch it and uh catch it, catch it there. It's good. Catch it, catch up. Love y'all. See ya.